InsaneJournal

Tweak says, "RAWR!"

auctasinistra (auctasinistra) wrote,
@ 2008-09-12 06:22:00

Current mood:

annoyed

Okay
It was bound to reach the point of a rant someday (and since I know no one who's attached to such things will listen anyway): Please, stop with the screaming orgasms. It's not that I think the occasional person might not scream (more or less). But it's a very rare fic that believably builds things to the point where anyone who doesn't have Tourette's would actually scream. And if you must have a character scream, don't say "scream softly" (impossible by definition). Have the courage of your (ridiculous) convictions.

ETA: Watch a horror movie. That is a scream. Is your character doing that? I didn't think so.

/rant.

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	geoviki 2008-09-12 08:31 am UTC (link)
	Hahahaa! I can't tell you how many times I've thought the same thing. If someone I was having sex with started screaming, I'd panic, like I was about to snap something off or something. (Reply to this) (Thread)

	auctasinistra 2008-09-12 06:56 pm UTC (link)
	I know! It's like "What? What? Should I call 911???" I really suppose it's that people think scream is the right word for, like, an impassioned cry of abandon (which is usually more of a wail, at least in my limited experience). Cry is a perfectly good word for those sounds. My theory is, if the word "shriek" is inappropriate, probably the word "scream" is as well. :-) (Reply to this) (Parent)

elfwreck
2008-09-12 09:13 am UTC (link)

I used to scream during sex. A lot. I stopped from embarrassment--the second time my boyfriend's roommates taped me & put me on the answering machine, I started finding other ways to express my enthusiasm.

There's "silent screaming," in which the body goes through all the motions of screaming except for the vocal cord parts. But there is no "scream softly." A high-pitched moan is not a soft scream.

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	sinick 2008-09-12 06:00 pm UTC (link)
	points upscreen Wot she sed. ...er, well. Except for the 'boyfriend's roommates taped me' bit. I'm so relieved I've never dated anyone with roommates. ;^> (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	auctasinistra 2008-09-12 07:07 pm UTC (link)
	And I have to say - literally a scream? Like in a horror movie? Not a loud wailing sound? Sorry to get so technical about this, but it's just interesting to me! (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	sinick 2008-09-12 08:58 pm UTC (link)
	Not a 'horror-movie' scream, but I really couldn't call it a wail etc. Pillows are Very Handy Mufflers. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	sinick 2008-09-12 09:00 pm UTC (link)
	FWIW, I also scream with laughter on 'scary' amusement park rides. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	auctasinistra 2008-09-13 10:13 am UTC (link)
	And although I don't do that (I'm not very noisy, in general, really), I do understand that kind, and yeah, it is indeed a scream. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	auctasinistra 2008-09-12 06:58 pm UTC (link)
	Literally a horror-movie scream? Didn't that scare people? I mean, I'll be TMI honest, I can make quite a bit of noise, but they're really loud high-pitched moans, as you describe. I won't say no one screams (that would be silly), but ... neighbors would be calling the cops on people constantly! It cannot be common. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

elfwreck
2008-09-12 07:12 pm UTC (link)

Not "horror movie" screams, which last a lot longer, and tend to be more single-tone. But screaming enough to scare people if they didn't know what was going on.

In Berkeley hippie-haven apartments, once it's established that someone's girlfriend is a screamer, they don't worry about it. (Have fond memories of the upstairs roommate pounding on his floor & yelling "HE'S NOT THAT DAMNED GOOD!")

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	auctasinistra 2008-09-12 08:23 pm UTC (link)
	There's also a lot of diaphragm-oriented, focused oomph in a real scream. Surely one's body is doing other more important things at that moment, rather than focusing energy into that? :-) I don't have that kind of focus, or energy to spare, at that moment. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

sinick
2008-09-12 08:54 pm UTC (link)

I think we're just running into differences of interpretation.

For me, there's a lot of difference in screams. A baby wanting to be fed, a kid having a tantrum, an adult's scream of rage, a scream of terror, etc etc etc, as well as screams of joy (think lottery winners) - I think the latter probably is closest to the sorts of noises that can fairly be described as orgasmic screams.

It can all be described as screaming to me, though it sounds like you're interpreting the word mainly in terms of the FUCK I'M GOING TO DIIIIIE!!!! full-throated scream of terror.

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auctasinistra
2008-09-13 10:12 am UTC (link)

Yeah, mostly. A baby, the tantrum, a scream of rage, a scream of terror - those, to me, are screams, and I find it hard to believe that translates to a person having an orgasm. A scream as on a rollercoaster, or a person winning the lottery ... even then, although those are joy-motivated ... I'm MORE inclined to say it's that kind of scream, but I'm still hard pressed to imagine that during sex. Noisy wails, moans and cries, yes, but outright screams? To me, a scream is by definition full-throated, full-diaphragmed, all out. Anything less just isn't a scream (this is starting to sound like a commercial) - it's some other kind of cry.

Again, I don't say it doesn't happen, and you're right that it's based on my interpretation of what the word scream means.

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elfwreck
2008-09-12 09:59 pm UTC (link)

It's not a like a horror-movie scream. It is (somewhat) like an amusement-park scream, or like a "scalded self with hot coffee" scream. It's higher pitched than I think of "yelling," and sharper (and often less throaty) than "moaning."

A lover who likes the noise, learns to play with it--do things that encourage the screamer to take deep breaths, build up from small sounds to full-throated yells. Being a screamer takes either an aptitude for making noise, or practice; leaving the vocal cords "on" during sex was something I had to learn, and am somewhat annoyed I've had to unlearn. (Screaming and small children=bad combination; there is no way to explain to a two-year-old that really, mommy & daddy are having fun, nobody's getting hurt here.)

Oh, and "single scream at orgasm" is much easier to get than "wild screaming throughout sex." (Although I gather it's much, much more common for females than males. I've known men who made noise at orgasm... but I don't think any of them "screamed.")

It doesn't sound like horror-movie terror screaming. It does--or can--sound like "being beaten horribly" screaming (a kind of combination of wailing and yelling, with lots of short yelps), which can cause roommates or neighbors to be concerned.

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auctasinistra
2008-09-13 10:25 am UTC (link)

It sounds like this wasn't something you did, but something you learned (unless I'm misunderstanding). (Of course that's sort of off the point except in the sense that it confirms that it's not natural for very many people to outright scream during sex)

As ever, mileage varies, but I'm still wondering if, if I heard it, I wouldn't call it something other than a scream. What you describe sounds more wail-like, or cry-like, to me - but of course that's the real issue: words aren't always good descriptions of what a sound really sounds like. And fictionally, at least, scream always throws me out of a story because it sounds (in fiction) fake and over the top (and of course, since I read slash, it's always men screaming. Er, no).

Wild screaming throughout sex? I'm willing to bet that's something women do only when paid to (porn, prostitution), except in very, very rare cases. Think of the energy it takes! :-)

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elfwreck
2008-09-13 01:15 pm UTC (link)

Had to learn to not be silent. The specific noises were unlearned.

Throughout sex? Umm, no. At the "high points." And with a good partner, there's enough "high points" to thoroughly annoy the roommates. But it's not constant. And yeah, it takes energy--but so does clawing at someone's back. So does does banging the bed against the wall. It doesn't take focused energy (the way that horror-movie screams do).

I now want to put together a "noisy sex" panel for BasCon or Escapade, and have a bunch of women offer to make sex/orgasm noises and everyone attempts to describe the noises in words. ::ponders whether hotels have enough soundproofing to have this not cause a dozen security guards to interrupt the session::

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auctasinistra
2008-09-13 06:48 pm UTC (link)

Had to learn to not be silent. The specific noises were unlearned.

Ah - I gotcha. That makes sense.

I now want to put together a "noisy sex" panel for BasCon or Escapade, and have a bunch of women offer to make sex/orgasm noises and everyone attempts to describe the noises in words.

You know, that would rock. There's so much fake stuff that people get from porn and shit - it'd be very interesting to know more about what real, normal women do during real, normal sex. There'd have to be booze, though. I think it'd be hard to relax. Although there'd be a LOT of laughing once everyone got relaxed enough to do it. :-)

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alicit
2008-09-12 11:05 am UTC (link)

My neighbour's ex was a screamer. The first time he brought her home for the night, my roommate and I went out to the street about 1.00 a.m. thinking somebody was being attacked until we realized what was going on. After a few days we recommended double glazing.

That happened almost twenty years ago and I haven't encountered another instance of real people screaming during sex ever since.

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	auctasinistra 2008-09-12 07:01 pm UTC (link)
	As you say - there's such a broad range of what people do that I couldn't say no one screams, but I've gotta say most people can't possibly, or the cops would never rest. I think the issue isn't "people aren't loud when they orgasm" - sure they are, some. But the sound people make isn't a scream. Moans, wails, cries, whatever. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	ella_bane 2008-09-12 12:03 pm UTC (link)
	Screaming softly! I'd like to hear that. I feel lucky. I can't recall ever having read that in a fic. Or it could be that I've blocked it out. (Reply to this) (Thread)

auctasinistra
2008-09-12 07:02 pm UTC (link)

Lord. Screaming orgasms all over the place. And guys screaming, yet. I mean, I can't imagine men or women screaming during orgasms. I have to suppose it's that the writers don't know the right words for those sounds, and are falling back on scream. But if they popped a horror DVD in and really listened to a scream, I think they'd go "Er, no, that's not exactly the sound I had in mind."

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	sinick 2008-09-12 05:58 pm UTC (link)
	Trouble is, you can't accurately describe "an Aargh! that came out muffled because every muscle in his body, including his neck, was straining hard", without (best case) kicking your reader right out of the story and (worst case) provoking eyerolls/laughter/headdesking. (Reply to this) (Thread)

auctasinistra
2008-09-12 07:06 pm UTC (link)

I know it! It's really hard to describe the sounds people make (we all know them, or at least we know some range of them) - but scream flings me right out of the story. I don't know if I'd flee any faster if the person wrote "A drawn-out, throaty, slowly ululating banshee wail, yet somehow joyous, as if someone was about to die and the banshee was absolutely delighted about the fact."

Okay, maybe that would throw me out too. :-)

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	anya_elizabeth 2008-09-12 07:28 pm UTC (link)
	Having experienced a 'screamer', I am a little more tolerant. But it still makes me laugh. (Reply to this) (Thread)

	auctasinistra 2008-09-12 08:24 pm UTC (link)
	And I gotta say - the sound was literally a scream, as in a horror movie? As opposed to a wail or cry? I don't say it's impossible, but really. Pop in a horror movie and listen to screams. Was it really just like that? (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	anya_elizabeth 2008-09-12 08:34 pm UTC (link)
	Possibly closer to a wail, now you come to mention it, accompanied by violent biting... I am still scarred. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	auctasinistra 2008-09-13 10:09 am UTC (link)
	Ooh, the biting thing. See ... I can see that a bit. I mean, I'm inclined, but I don't break the skin. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	aliciajd 2008-09-12 07:44 pm UTC (link)
	Oh yes, this is one of my top peeves in fan fiction. I can happily accept some form of 'cried out', but never a scream unless the story is about a brutal rape. (Reply to this) (Thread)

	auctasinistra 2008-09-12 08:24 pm UTC (link)
	Yeah - a scream for help, I'd buy! (Reply to this) (Parent)

	xanthophyllippa 2008-09-12 09:11 pm UTC (link)
	Cripes, NO KIDDING. THANK YOU. I've been thinking this to myself, teeth gnashing, for what feels like CENTURIES. (Reply to this) (Thread)

	auctasinistra 2008-09-13 10:15 am UTC (link)
	Like I say, it's possible. I'm just inclined to think it's pretty darn rare and that the writers just can't think of the right word for the loud wailing that some ~~of us~~ people do at that time. But a scream is a very definitive sound, and I'd be scared to death if someone screamed during sex. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	xanthophyllippa 2008-09-13 10:16 am UTC (link)
	Especially if a man screamed during sex. I'd think I'd suddenly developed a vagina dentata, or something. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

auctasinistra
2008-09-13 10:36 am UTC (link)

Yeah - since I read mostly slash, that's where I'm hitting the screaming orgasm. It just screams (ha ha) amateur to me - I assume the person is new to writing and unfamiliar with sex. It really throws me out of a story (then again, if there's screaming involved during sex, I already have one readerly foot out the door by the time I get there, because the writing has generally already proven to be unpolished).

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elfwreck
2008-09-12 10:20 pm UTC (link)

However, in support of your point:
Husband & I pooled some info. I've been a screamer; I've heard of other screamers. ("I am woman, hear me roar//from the basement to third floor...") Husband's been directly involved with 5 or 6 women he'd call "screamers." Heard of several more.

Husband knew of exactly one man who was a screamer. Has never heard of another one. I've never been involved with, nor heard of, a male screamer. (Number of men I've had sex with: more than twenty. Less than a hundred. The fact that I think those are relevant numbers says something about how I think of it.) No friends have ever mentioned male screamers, including the friend who started keeping count of her sexual encounters after guy #40, and the one who lost count at about 150.

Screaming orgasms are (1) rare and (2) a girl thing. A single male scream, perhaps at a crucial point (the first sexual encounter after 10 years of magical impotence, or after removal of a curse, or after three hours of extensive foreplay with his true love whom he thought was dead) might be believable; chapter after chapter of wild, screaming orgasms are not.

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	elethian 2008-09-13 12:07 am UTC (link)
	I was going to argue "what would you call that 'aiiiiieee-aaaahh-ahhh-hhhhnnn! ohhhhh-ahhhn!' kind of noise", but I've seen "wail" and "cry" offered as alternatives. I don't think I've ever "screamed" although I think I've made sounds I would qualify as "yells" or "shouts" rather than "wails" or "cries". I think it might be a shrillness thing? (Reply to this) (Thread)

auctasinistra
2008-09-13 10:30 am UTC (link)

That's the thing - it's a word definition thing. I've never heard a woman scream during sex, even in porn, which is filled with faked sounds for effect. I would call the sounds I've heard, the sounds I make, and the sounds you describe wails, cries, moans, all kinds of things. But like I say - put in a horror flick. Do people make that sound? Or even an amusement park ride flick - do people make that sound? Full bodied, full throated, focused, drawn out all out? I would argue they don't, most of the time. It is a matter of how you define scream, but then, I used to think the word scream was reasonably well defined. As I say above, to me, if you wouldn't use the word "shriek," you probably wouldn't use the word "scream."

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elfwreck
2008-09-13 01:19 pm UTC (link)

For what I've been talking about--shriek would also be accurate. Especially short shrieks.

It's not scary for the partner involved (who got to hear the softer sounds build up in that direction, and grow in volume & intensity), but it can be disconcerting to others.

I'd call it, from what I've heard, about as rare as a real affinity for nipple clamps (as opposed to "has tried them and they were maybe okay in the right setting")... everyone knows about someone whose college roommate did it, but on further polling, they're all talking about the same roommate.

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	foliageink 2008-10-08 08:39 am UTC (link)
	So...whenever they say: "ohh, baby, I want to make you scream", they actually meant "I want to make you cry/wail"..? Or is it just a figure of speech? (Reply to this) (Thread)

	auctasinistra 2008-10-08 07:37 pm UTC (link)
	I always figured it was just ego on the part of those who say it. :-) (Reply to this) (Parent)

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auctasinistra
2008-10-30 07:48 pm UTC (link)
I totally see Snape as a grunter - any admission of pleasure on his part would be grudging, no doubt about it. :-)
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persevero
2008-10-30 11:09 am UTC (link)
I do so agree. To combine this with your previous post, here is dementordelta's description from 'Anybody Else': (Harry is) awed by the silent joy of (Severus's orgasm). No screaming there. There is an amusing scene in a double-Polyjuice SSHG fic I read recently, where Hermione finds that orgasming in Snape's form renders her able to do nothing but grunt.

NB - sorry - forgot I couldn't use angle-brackets.
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